Monday, October 5, 2009

We need some time...

There's plenty to say in the wake of this season, and the myriad ways it fell to dust over the last four months.

We'd hoped to have some profound summation to the year that was, but today, we're just a mess of emotions that we'd prefer to keep to ourselves until we can sort them out into something coherent.

The Ack gave us all lots to ponder over the weekend on Cito, and we highly recommend a look there. Also, Stephen Brunt pretty much wrote exactly what we were thinking all of last week, only in a much more eloquently elucidated manner that we'd never be able to replicate. So you can read his take here. (Reading Brunt makes us hate our self just a little bit.)

As for us, we're going to stare off into the distance for a while and see if any of this makes any sense to us anymore.


eyebleaf said...

Quite the few days, eh? What a shit show. It's going to get better, Tao. It has to. Alex Anthopoulos!!1

Here's my ode to Ricciardi: Long live J.P.

The Ack said...

To reverse the Brunt self-loathing, I recommend digging up Steve Simmons' masterpiece on Ricciardi's firing.

Self indulgent nausea inducing fucking barferrific bullshit.

Fuck 2009 and everything this season stands for (except Hill, Lind, Doc).

Oh, and Cito saying Snider has to earn a job next year? Oh, fuck.

Tao of Stieb said...

Fuck Cito.

The Ack said...

How close are we to saying "Fuck Beeston"? The clincher for me will be if Cito returns at the expense of Arnsberg/Butterfield.

Clearly, it's not gonna be AA's call.

(and speaking of which, how much bullshit is involved with this "the new Prez will decide AA's fate". If they are as close to naming the guy as Beeston would have us believe, don't you think they'd get advance sign-off? of course they would.)

Darren Priest said...

Well, big standing O from me, boys. You provided good reading daily all season for nothing other than love of (the) game.

I hope you keep it up in the off-season. Looks like it could be interesting.

Tao of Stieb said...

Fuck Beeston. Fuck Cito. Fuck Nostalgia. Fuck Flashback Fridays. Fuck Back2Back weekend. Fuck Leyva. Fuck Tennace.

Fuck it all.

The Ack said...

Thanks Priesty. I don't often mention it, but the positive reinforcement is appreciated. I'm like a Pavlovian dog, man.

Now back to our regularly scheduled 'Fuck Everything' vibe.

eyebleaf said...

I'm with Priesty; you guys made it all a little bit more worthwhile. Well done, both of you.

And just like how THE BEEST said he supported Ricciardi after the "mutiny," they're saying the same about Cito now. Gaston is gone. Hopefully, he will resign. Save some god damn semblance of pride. His legacy certainly took a beating this year. He needs to save some of it.

Fuck everything and everyone, yes, except Alex Anthopoulos.

QJays said...

Bravo tao. This whole season ended rather oddly and abruptly (funny, given we knew it would be done after #162) - nice thing about being a blogger is that you don't have to pass off some knee-jerk reaction as though it were thoughtful analysis. Just reflect.

Ack: on the "the new Prez will decide AA's fate". - it is true that they would likely get an OK to do so, but that doesn't mean the person plans on keeping him. I'm sure the Prez-to-be wasn't planning to fire JP as soon as it happened, and therefore couldn't have possibly said "I guess I'll have to conduct interviews for a new GM before I officially become the Prez."
So my guess is the response was simply "Sure, put AA in there since somebody needs to stand on the X. But no promises once that I turn my full attention to this team that he'll stay there." To be fair, we expect that the new Prez will re-consider the current GM upon arrival, whether it is somebody who has been in the position for 8 years or 8 days.

eyebleaf said...

The Cito is old enough to be AA's dad. There's no way this situation can work. Cito must go.

Sven the Swede said...

How soon do you think JP will be on the Drunks's podcast?
Or, even better, them hosting a call in show with JP, that would be amazing....
Blair and Brunt show why they write for the Globe and Simmons writes for the Sun.

Tao of Stieb said...

Fuck Simmons. Fuck him right in his smug fucking face.

I hope the Sun goes tits up, and Simmons is left writing for the fucking Metro. Or the Buttcrack Expositor. Or whatever.

Fuck Simmons.

FUCK YOU IN THE ASS!!! said...

Has Snider done anything to earn a job next year??? NO!

On Cito:
"Years later, Shawn Green would say: 'Now I understand what you were trying to do,' and Alex Gonzalez came up a few years ago saying: 'I know now what you were talking about."


Guess what internet Hacks. Cito might know something about raising ball players.

Tao of Stieb said...

Aaron Hill wins Comeback Player of the Year Award.

Something to feel happy about.

The Ack said...

@ QJays - here's the problem with that scenario....

Let's say Beeston waits until November to name his replacement ("...maybe this month, certainly by next...."). So we're at November 1 when the new guy is announced. Unless he has his own man queued up for GM - and by your admission, he shouldn't, since he needs to evaluate AA on his own - we're at mid-November if he names his own "new" GM.

That means the team is nearing the winter meetings without beginning work on the "strategy" going forward, since the GM will be the guy putting forth said "strategy".

Which means the team is again a directionless shitshow of a franchise for 2010.

That can't happen. Even Beeston and his nudge-nudge-wink-wink replacement has to know that. AA is said to be getting to work on the strategy as we speak. Somebody else starting from scratch mid-November would just further the fucking gong show.

Tao of Stieb said...

Cito always loved Alex Gonzalez. There was never any controversy about how he was used.

And as for Shawn Green...If that's what he really said to Cito (and we have only Cito's memory to rely on), then I'd bet he was just being nice.

Cito has never really done much for young players. And he's never going to get another team like the 92-93 teams.

The whole point of everything in life is to adapt and adjust. Cito hasn't, and we shouldn't be holding out hope that in his 60's he's suddenly going to develop those skills as a manager.

(And BTW, no one had bigger Cito love than me over the past decade. I WANTED this to work.)

Buffalo Bills #1 said...

What exactly in Steve Simmon's column is wrong? Everything he says is true!!

Christopher said...

Beeston already has his guy chosen but it is probably someone who works for one of the playoff teams.

Beeston said he has no reason to believe that the incoming President will not allow AA to remain as GM.

How would he know that unless he has talked to the incoming President?

MRB said...

A hat tip to Tao and Ack for the great writing over the season.

Anonymous said...

You are one stupid motherfucker. No intelligent fan wants JP retained. What have we won in 8 years?? Nothing! We haven't even sniffed the playoffs in 8 years. You can make all the excuses you want about payroll and Boston and New York but JP had money and he has used over 40 million dollars in paying off players who didn't play for us.

Either you believe that the Jays can one day make the playoffs or you believe it is impossible with Boston and NY. If you believe they can then clearly JP was not the man.

Eight years and he still couldn't develop a catcher or a short stop.

He was shit.

Tao of Stieb said...

"Either you believe that the Jays can one day make the playoffs or you believe it is impossible with Boston and NY."

That' my friends, is what we in the business (what business?) call a false dichotomy.

But here's what I believe: I believe that it is going to be extraordinarily difficult for the Jays to ever get over the hump in AL East, because if the Sox or Yanks ever have down years, they will blow up their budget and expand on the payroll disparity that already exists.

If the Jays are to become contenders, they've got to capitalize on the season here or there where one of those two teams slips back because of injuries, retirements or moves gone awry.

But to do that, they are not going to have the luxury of a long rebuilding process because they'll have to be ready EVERY YEAR to capitalize on those momentary lapses by the big two.

And what will this mean? A lot of years of 84-88 wins and third place finishes.

Just like what we got over much of the 8 years under J.P..

Switching the GM isn't going to make the balance of power in the AL East shift dramatically. It's just going to give the media a different narrative. And God knows those guys love when somebody else provides them with a new narrative, because god forbid anyone should look harder at their subjects to develop a more profound understanding of it.

Tao of Stieb said...

Also, anonymous:

Marco Scutaro was one of the most productive shortstops in the Majors this year. So, there's that.

eyebleaf said...

Way to put your name behind it, Anon.

I think The Ack nails it: this team needs direction. Any direction. The whithering isn't helping.

And I agree with Christopher; Beeston's guy is with a playoff team right now. Once he's done, he'll be introduced.

Tao of Stieb said...

And if you weren't so preoccupied with deciding who is a stupid motherfucker and who isn't, you might recognize this: That catcher and shortstop are the two most difficult positions to develop.

Go around to 25 teams in any given year, and they are probably talking about their catcher of the future and their shortstop of the future.

If Ricciardi failed there (and the jury is still out on Arencibia and Justin Jackson), he's not alone.

Torgen said...

Justin Jackson is still the Shortstop of the Future? I thought we'd moved on to Tyler Pastornicky.

Tao of Stieb said...

Oh yeah, Pastornicky.

What he said.

Darren Priest said...

Do these anons ever get tired of being taken to school? Geez, boys, that's why I never take a questionable position.

Speaking of which, how about that Erin Andrews?

QJays said...

@ Ack,
Yes, that's possible. I don't know enough about what months new Presidents have been named in baseball in the past, nor whether they already have a person to name as GM in most cases. And just to clarify, it wasn't so much an admission that the new Prez can't have a person ready -- really, even if the new Prez has a person ready at a moment's notice, the Jays probably don't install him/her in advance of naming the president. (as an aside, if the Jays have said that AA is working on strategy, that is a much better news release than saying that he is sitting on his thumb - but that's all I see it as being)

My impression is that AA being named GM really changes nothing, which was basically my point. So we don't "know" something about where the team is going simply because AA currently holds the job anymore than we did when JP held it. That said, it's possible that AA will keep the job -- I just wouldn't hang my hat on it as a "hire by the new Prez" at this point. He may also go back to AGM.

I would assume that the new GM will be someone close to the game who can handle the winter meetings after a month on the job, and that these meetings alone do not determine that a shitshow is in order regardless -- of course, if we just expect a shitshow as the most likely outcome, we have nowhere to go but up, right?

SP said...

I guess not developing a home-grown SS is a valid complaint, although Hill was a SS and probably could still do it if needed.

But complaining about catching prospects? Seriously, who cares? During JP's tenure, we've had Greg Myers' career year (125 OPS+), then the solid Gregg Zaun (97 OPS+ in his time as a Jay), and then Barajas and his awful OBP, which he made up for with his power and arm. Not much to complain about.

Cash, Quiroz, Diaz, Arencibia, and Jeroloman are/were all solid catching prospects under JP who couldn't/haven't yet put it together. Whatevs.

Blark said...

I realize it is a little early for this, but humour me for a moment here... Can the Jays move Lind to 1B & free up some cash for a mashing corner outfielder? If so, is this a viable batting order for next year?

Scutaro (SS)
Hill (2B)
Lind (1B)
That mashing corner outfielder
Ruiz (DH)
Welles (CF)
Encarnacion (3B)
Snider (the other corner)
Barajas (C)... or his replacement

Of course this begs the question: who the hell is this mystery "corner outfielder" - an obvious flaw to my plan. Is this a lineup that can get us the goods or am I full of shit here? Overbay would be traded for prospects.

SP said...

Overbay is signed through next year and is paid about 7M/yr so you're not getting much for him unless you eat salary.

There really is no mashing FA hitter out there that would put this team over the top. I don't think even a Bay/Holliday type wouldn't be enough; they are complementary stars. The best way to get that true mashing cleanup hitter is the trade route. So basically, Halladay for Prince Fielder.* Who's with me?

*Halladay (and the Brewers) would have to approve the trade, but fuck it.

Seriously, we need drastic changes. That half-assed shit isn't gonna put this team over the top.

Anonymous said...

So we wait until next year & break the bank to get Joe Mauer!

Jayszone93 said...

So I had to do it, a bit of a defense of JP Ricciardi who I feel got a bit of a raw deal all in all... Click my name for link... Let's discuss!

Gil Fisher said...

Tao, you are spot on. Make sure you're competitive every year, and hope lady luck comes knocking. Outsitde a consistent $120m payroll, that is the only way the Jays can achieve anything.

I've felt that way for a while, but never before have I seen someone state it in the blogdom.

Waiting on Lady Luck is a crummy deal, but it is the best hand available.

Joanna said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joanna said...

Let's start another blood feud. I think Cito should at least say Snider has to earn a job next season. It should focus young Travis, gives him a specific goal and for someone prone to sulking and being stubborn, that could be career making. He might be the wave of the future, but it's not the future yet.

Hate Cito all you want, but you can't say that the work that he and Adam Lind put in didn't work wonders.

Joanna said...

Btw, 'bleaf, Brunt's point is basically my point about the Back 2 Back celebration. Just expanded.

bkblades said...

Can I say the time Cito spent with Lind was certainly awesome, but it seems like he did it at the expense of the other 24 players on the team. With the so-called "mutiny". isn't that playing the proper devil's advocate? I mean, if Lind responded so well to Cito, why wouldn't other players respond the same way?

But no blood feud, Joanna. You have your hands tied with Tao and Eyebleaf.

Oh, and thanks for another year of superb writing Tao and Ack.

vegan jays fan said...

Sir Paul McCartney said...


eyebleaf said...

Joanna: Back to Back World Series champions. I won't let you tarnish the glory.

Joanna said...

I'm not tarnishing the glory. I'm just saying, that, lumped together with all flashback hirings, when the team was such a mess in the present was a problem.