tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post683667176767166455..comments2023-12-15T07:22:02.492-05:00Comments on The Tao of Stieb: The long, slow, miserable march towards mediocrityTao of Stiebhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12459135109404905466noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-71762079433679792052009-08-21T14:37:31.142-04:002009-08-21T14:37:31.142-04:00My computer went all whorish on me. My apologies. ...My computer went all whorish on me. My apologies. 'Duk stopped following me on Twitter, and no longer responds to my emails. He clearly hates me. My heart weeps.Navin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-4418955414400693382009-08-21T14:11:11.382-04:002009-08-21T14:11:11.382-04:00Hey eyebleaf..what the hell happened to your posts...Hey eyebleaf..what the hell happened to your posts over on Big League Stew yesterday?<br /><br />Oh well, at least you made your point...eventually.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-5943003876748958692009-08-21T13:19:15.071-04:002009-08-21T13:19:15.071-04:00Klaw strikes again...
Yeah, this sucks, but Paint...<a href="http://tinypic.com/r/r7kghc/3" rel="nofollow">Klaw strikes again</a>...<br /><br />Yeah, this sucks, but Paint is not that easy to work with, ya know.Darren Priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04577092117174508443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-38944227746736556472009-08-21T13:14:22.266-04:002009-08-21T13:14:22.266-04:00If this is all true, it really makes no sense to g...If this is all true, it really makes no sense to go over slot on Webb and Hobson and not on Paxton and Eli.<br /><br />SP is right: FML.Navin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-46340407368567792742009-08-21T13:11:06.397-04:002009-08-21T13:11:06.397-04:00If the Jays give in to Paxton, and Eliopoulos, the...<i>If the Jays give in to Paxton, and Eliopoulos, they have to give in to EVERYBODY else. That's my logic, and I'm sticking to it.</i><br /><br />See now that's just BS though. Here, take a look at the entire list of bonuses for the first 10 rounds: http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/articles/DisplayArticle.aspx?article=1611<br /><br />What I see there is teams mixing slot and over slot picks. There is simply no basis for thinking it becomes a slippery slope if they overpay for their top picks. <br /><br />As I said over at DJF, I think the over slot signings later on were simply a consolation prize. Which is stupid because scouts aren't as sold on Webb and Hobson as they are on Paxton and Eliopoulos. They gave Webb 300k over slot and Hobson 350k over.<br /><br />More on Eliopoulos from Bob Eliott: <br /><br /><i>The Jays made a slot money offer of $530,000 to Eliopoulos. The offer was denied and a request was made for $700,000.</i><br /><br />FMLSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15861389212599241745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-71153729773141849122009-08-21T12:59:08.517-04:002009-08-21T12:59:08.517-04:00Correction: Eliopoulos was offered more than 500k....Correction: Eliopoulos was offered more than 500k. 500k-ish was the actual slot price. So they were off by even less. Law's number of 700k for both is probably dead on.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15861389212599241745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-80015025531235630942009-08-21T12:58:12.219-04:002009-08-21T12:58:12.219-04:00Reading all of these comments just now at least po...Reading all of these comments just now at least points to the fact that we Jays fans are a passionate and loyal bunch. Easily top 5 in the league. Hey it's something...Mattthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16945030075122490090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-5581046453894364022009-08-21T12:54:09.360-04:002009-08-21T12:54:09.360-04:00If the Jays give in to Paxton, and Eliopoulos, the...If the Jays give in to Paxton, and Eliopoulos, they have to give in to EVERYBODY else. That's my logic, and I'm sticking to it.<br /><br />@ Tao: I stopped making sense a long time ago. I have to check my archives just to see if I'm being consistent. I'm fucked.Navin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-24964911718574863572009-08-21T12:46:15.573-04:002009-08-21T12:46:15.573-04:00I've done my share of JP apologism on other bl...I've done my share of JP apologism on other blogs, bordering on obsession, so I'll just say this:<br /><br /><i>it's not your fault<br />it's not your fault<br />it's not your fault JP<br />it's not your fault</i><br /><br />Anyway, latest word from Baseball America is that Paxton wanted $1.35 million and the Jays stood firm at $1 milion! Beeston, who handled the negotiations by himself, even got Boras to come down from his original $1.5M asking price but Beeston still wouldn't budge. So there you have it folks, our over slot playing, glove off taking, 1.3 billion dollar profit making ownership cheaped out over 350k. SEVEN players below Paxton got more than $1.35M, through round 10, including teams like KC and Oakland, and of course Boston and New York.<br /><br />Eliopoulous wanted $1 million but the Jays stood firm on 500k, which was basically the slot price. Again SEVEN players below Eliopoulous, through round 10, got more than $1M, including Marisnick.<br /><br />THIS is what some of you people are making excuses for? 850k, close to the 700k KLaw estimated? There are no excuses.SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15861389212599241745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-9628787384926554192009-08-21T12:05:47.497-04:002009-08-21T12:05:47.497-04:00Holy shit, that .354 winning percentage since May ...Holy shit, that .354 winning percentage since May 18th is one of the more sobering stats I've seen all season long. FML.Ian Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01074587524873409802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-36696983418968034642009-08-21T11:52:43.878-04:002009-08-21T11:52:43.878-04:00@eyebleaf
That's a stellar post today on the ...@eyebleaf<br /><br />That's a stellar post today on the almighty dollar. You're right, they have to spend, and in a way, that's what I'm getting at with the "be aggressive" notion. <br /><br />The Brewers gave up a lot last year to get C.C. for a few months early, but they saw that they had an opportunity, and they went into the trade market way before the deadline to shore up a weakness. End result: Playoffs.<br /><br />The NL Central isn't the AL East, to be sure. But the Jays should have money set aside for mid-season acquisitions if they see that things are going well.<br /><br />Imagine if in Mid-May, the Jays said "Fuck it. We're on top, and we're going for it" and went after Cliff Lee. Maybe they fall on their face and then end up giving up one of the prospects that may contribute in 2010 or 2011 or 2012, and it all looks like a disaster after the fact. But wouldn't it be somewhat preferable for them to lay it on the line and go hard after when they see a bit of a chance?<br /><br />(We'll give you this: Mid-May was probably way too soon, and that nine-game losing streak essentially killed the season. So most of what I'm saying here is moot.)<br /><br />@Stonedog<br /><br />In a way, the "who" question is kinda moot. But from Rogers, down to Beeston, then down to the front office and down to the field management, someone has to show some goddamned vision and an ounce of leadership, and start guiding this franchise in some sort of direction. <br /><br />I never had a problem with the mythical 5-year plan of J.P. (even if I don't think it was as simple as that)...what I've got a problem with is the five different plans that they've had this year. <br /><br />I think that the Jays will probably bring in a senior advisor and give the GM job to Alex Anthopoulos, which would be fine by me...although I might prefer LaCava.<br /><br />I know that most of this stuff will get resolved in the off-season, but my worst fear is that they'll give J.P. and Cito one more year each to see this thing through, and that would just about stop my heart dead in my chest.<br /><br />I think this is the most frustrated that I've been since I started this blog. I'm sure it shows, because I don't even know if I'm making sense anymore.Tao of Stiebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12459135109404905466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-62704388647264901052009-08-21T11:52:14.425-04:002009-08-21T11:52:14.425-04:00@ Steve: I'd say the Blue Jays have the right ...@ Steve: I'd say the Blue Jays have the right mix when it comes to their farm development. Now they just need the right free agents (Not BJ Ryan and Frank Thomas.)<br /><br />In 2009s case, the right free agents would have been Bobby Abreu, and A.J. Burnett.<br /><br />It would have also helped if Rios and Wells pulled their weight.<br /><br />I need a drink.Navin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-38794108210179068962009-08-21T11:50:38.085-04:002009-08-21T11:50:38.085-04:00It ain't going down like that, Ack. $100-$110....It ain't going down like that, Ack. $100-$110. We're cracking that top 10 list.Navin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-8033676836820493762009-08-21T11:50:35.795-04:002009-08-21T11:50:35.795-04:00... except that even the dominance of Boston and N...... except that even the dominance of Boston and New York is due to a mixture of free agent spending and farm development. The Mets and Mariners show that money alone isn't a good excuse, and the competitive advantage of Boston and New York's payroll isn't so overwhelming that it is impossible for other teams to win.Steve G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12021363760202667755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-25070893424476093712009-08-21T11:45:33.755-04:002009-08-21T11:45:33.755-04:00That's a dangerous stance you're taking, b...That's a dangerous stance you're taking, bro.....just be careful you don't back yourself into a corner if/when word comes down on a $75-$85M number for next year....The Ackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374953233006854310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-85227439280806772762009-08-21T11:42:08.698-04:002009-08-21T11:42:08.698-04:00$80 million is not enough in the AL East. Only onc...$80 million is not enough in the AL East. Only once since the Blue Jays won the World Series has a team with less than $100 million won the AL East. It was the Rays. Last year. And it won't happen again this year.Navin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-80640550529740235622009-08-21T11:38:50.220-04:002009-08-21T11:38:50.220-04:00And, again, I disagree that payroll is a cop out. ...<i>And, again, I disagree that payroll is a cop out. Six of the top 10 spending teams are GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS. That shit speaks for itself. And as I wrote in my post, until the Rays do it consistently, fuck them, they are a one-hit wonder.</i><br /><br />I think you're mixing up cause-and-effect a little bit. Good players require more money to sign and resign than bad players. If you're the Pirates, who are you going to spend money on?<br /><br />And also, since when is Toronto a JV team? Having been to your gorgeous city, it's a great place, and I'd say it's a better market than many out there. Economics doesn't pass the smell test for me, not when Detroit has a $115 million payroll. $80 million is plenty anyway for a competitive team, and the available cash would be higher without the BJ Ryan deal and the ownership-decreed signing of Vernon Wells.Steve G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12021363760202667755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-68838102722978391092009-08-21T11:29:57.447-04:002009-08-21T11:29:57.447-04:00Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not giving u...Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not giving up on the team. I love the goddamned Blue Jays. Probably too much for my own emotional well-being.<br /><br />But I guess I'm just admitting the season is gone straight to fuck, and even the bright spots are pretty dim right now. Fuck 2009, I guess.<br /><br />Am I giving up on the regime entirely? I don't know. Like the Tao said, it's hard to imagine JP coming back, Beeston can't seem to make a decison to save his life, and Cito? Well, how deep is his tank of goodwill? <br /><br />Because those horseshit lineups, bullpen mismanagement, prickly stances with certain players, and general in-game laissez-faire is starting to kill me. More than a little.The Ackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374953233006854310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-62399658337896333822009-08-21T11:28:46.497-04:002009-08-21T11:28:46.497-04:00While I also share the 'fuck Cito, fuck JP, fu...While I also share the 'fuck Cito, fuck JP, fuck this team' depressive attitude, what pulls me up short is the next thought in my brain, which is:<br /><br />If not Cito, then who?<br />If not JP, then who?<br /><br />Yeah, yeah, I can't wait for those two guys to exit, stage left, but let's have a comprehensive discussion about who would be excellent replacements. Alex Anthopoulos seems to be the de facto consensus pick as JP's replacement, but should he be? What would he do differently? What's his 'five year plan'? And if anyone brings up the name 'Steve Phillips', they automatically get a punch to the ballsack.<br /><br />The Leafs and Raptors went out and acquired proven GM talent to legitimize their mediocre clubs. Shouldn't that be the Jays' strategy, too? Shouldn't that also be their strategy for finding a manager? See, this is what really matters, and no doubt it starts with Beeston shitting or getting off the pot. Either find a new President or keep the job, for fuck's sake. Do something, as Jeff Blair has said.stonedoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01889444287161712025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-68365713437260289452009-08-21T11:14:01.036-04:002009-08-21T11:14:01.036-04:00@ The Ack: I'll never get there. I'm in to...@ The Ack: I'll never get there. I'm in too deep to turn back now.<br /><br />@ Steve: About the injuries, I refuse. They're a part of baseball. Beyond the Box Score has done posts about injuries in baseball, and we're in the middle of the pack. It's not as bad as people such as yourself make it out to be. Every team has to deal with them. We are no different. <br /><br />And, again, I disagree that payroll is a cop out. Six of the top 10 spending teams are GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS. That shit speaks for itself. And as I wrote in my post, until the Rays do it consistently, fuck them, they are a one-hit wonder.Navin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-43774471855316889872009-08-21T11:08:51.529-04:002009-08-21T11:08:51.529-04:00Eyebleaf, at a certain point, you have to blame so...Eyebleaf, at a certain point, you have to blame someone for all of the injury woes on the Jays pitching staff. Eith acknowledge that there is an issue with how you're treating players or the medical staff or the rest patterns used by managers, or admit that there is a systematic error in the way that you are evaluating pitcher's potential health.<br /><br />While I agree that J.P. hasn't done anything ridiculously stupid this year (well, OK, the Halladay stuff is debatable) to desire getting fired, his body of work speaks for itself. <br /><br />To use a tenuous pop culture reference: When Lindsay has finally had enough of Tobias on "Arrested Development", it's because he makes a snippy comment about her stretching out his leopard print thong. She says, "I don't know why, but that's it. We're done." Well, I think pretty much every Toronto fan (and even an outside observer like myself) thinks they're done with the JP era.<br /><br />As far as the payroll goes, that seems like a cop-out. The Rays don't have a huge payroll, but they do spend the money intelligently since their new management group came in. Pretty much everyone thought the huge money to Ryan and Burnett was an iffy decision at the time.Steve G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12021363760202667755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-73484525793741710542009-08-21T11:08:22.351-04:002009-08-21T11:08:22.351-04:00I'm a bit more sympathetic than eyebleaf to Ta...I'm a bit more sympathetic than eyebleaf to Tao's ending statements, but at the end of the day, I think I'm in eyeb's corner both. As much as it pains me to say it, I don't think Cito should be fired ... yet. I haven't liked Cito generally, but the thing is, he is working with some pretty depleted resources. While the 3-4-5 hitters last night look horrible, the only players who I would truly expect to have a better night against Lester is probably Ruiz or possibly Lind (though I think it was the probably the right night to give Lind a night off) -- Overbay, Snider, Bautista, Bueller, Bueller, Bueller ... none of these guys are likely to have a significantly better night in those spots.<br /><br />As for JP, that's a longer discussion, but I think that the good and the bad are still pretty balanced with him. For every good story, there is either a bad interpretation of the same story, or actually a bad story (but a lot of those are made up). I don't love JP, but I think firing him would be based more on symbol than substance. It might still work, but I have a hard time justifying it.QJayshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12581583881150328172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-59736548569119878452009-08-21T11:07:51.562-04:002009-08-21T11:07:51.562-04:00As for Cito, it's been embarassing to watch. H...<i>As for Cito, it's been embarassing to watch. He's been stubborn, obstinate, and far too willing to let the games get away from him.<br /><br />People always used to hold up the Jays' record in one-run games as an indication that Gibby was a nimrod and over his head. Well, Gibby never put on a display quite as horrendous as Cito.<br /></i><br /><br />Motherfucking THIS.<br /><br />Gawd, it's hard to watch right now. Like, so hard to watch that I don't even want to watch, but make myself watch because I'll feel guilty otherwise. And that's wrong, man. That's no way to live.<br /><br />You know, even when the Jays were rolling, I could not, for the god damned life of me, understand Cito's mail-it-in/rest day lineups. Jesus fucking Christ, when you roll out lineups like last night, you are basically saying "we have no shot". Now, that leads to the argument of limited options, but still.....Millar, Barajas, and yes - Wells should not even be able to see the heart of the order on any horizon.<br /><br />It is funny, though, how many of us - even the great optimists among us - have finally reached the tipping point.<br /><br />I pray you don't reach that point, eyebleaf, because then we'll really know we've reached high tide in this shitnami of a season.The Ackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374953233006854310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-71363896182980269982009-08-21T11:07:10.606-04:002009-08-21T11:07:10.606-04:00With numbers like that, it's not a march towar...With numbers like that, it's not a march toward mediocrity, it's a clusterfuck to the basement.<br /><br />(hat tip to The Daily Show)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-88891101604993622362009-08-21T11:02:26.815-04:002009-08-21T11:02:26.815-04:00What were you expecting, coming in at $80 million?...What were you expecting, coming in at $80 million?<br /><br />I wrote a post this morning about the top 10 spending teams in the league. Five of them are leading their divisions, and one (BoSox), will win the Wild Card.<br /><br />You have to spend money. AL East or not, but AL East especially. Period.<br /><br />http://www.sportsandthecity.com/2009/08/almighty-dollar.htmlNavin Vaswani (@eyebleaf)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08445618400360263938noreply@blogger.com