tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post1636439311803406868..comments2023-12-15T07:22:02.492-05:00Comments on The Tao of Stieb: On Roy Halladay and the persistence of changeTao of Stiebhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12459135109404905466noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-67085712808809708092010-03-13T23:58:32.311-05:002010-03-13T23:58:32.311-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-84454970328856312432010-01-12T21:20:54.924-05:002010-01-12T21:20:54.924-05:00Good day, sun shines!
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If it gets down to select a correct partner who uses your money in a right way - that`s it!.<br />I make 2G daily, and my first investment was 500 dollars only! <br />It`s easy to start , just click this link http://atyjekelyt.s-enterprize.com/otufahut.html<br /> and lucky you`re! Let`s take this option together to become richAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-43280322900987069052009-07-16T19:05:51.582-04:002009-07-16T19:05:51.582-04:00Except that management has said that fear of a fan...Except that management has said that fear of a fan backlash has factored into their decision. So I'll be damned if I'm going to do anything that makes it easier for them. If me and enough others threatening to leave can make a difference, then I'm willing to put my butt on the line. I will not be resigned.MK Piatkowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03121227101455959849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-27314136712823583662009-07-16T18:51:59.563-04:002009-07-16T18:51:59.563-04:00This comments section could use a rousing round of...This comments section could use a rousing round of kum-ba-yah.<br /><br />I think continuing to be angry at what's likely inevitable is counterproductive. I love Doc, and I've had my healthy expression of anger at the possibility of trading him. But Tao nails this... we may as well get ready. The clock is ticking.<br /><br />We love Roy Halladay, but we also love the Jays, come hell or high water, even if the ownership runs it more like a corporation than a sports team.<br /><br />Let's save our hatred for those that deserve it... like Joba Chamberlain and Dustin Pedroia.DaveChttp://davechurch.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-225632946863594572009-07-16T12:27:58.041-04:002009-07-16T12:27:58.041-04:00I'm saying even if they do show up it won'...I'm saying even if they do show up it won't make that great an impact in Rogers financial reports. <br /><br />Fans don't care about profits but if Rogers doesn't care about wins until wins mean profit. I don't know that the connection is so direct.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-87100713079631352282009-07-16T11:30:18.197-04:002009-07-16T11:30:18.197-04:00@ DRew where do I mention Gillick ? I mentioned th...@ DRew where do I mention Gillick ? I mentioned the fact that Wade never had made the playoffs with the Phils. You must be thinking of someone else? I never made the point you are talking about!BUT now that you mentioned Gillick....he made certain tweaks to get them over the hill. Certain things that Wade was not savvy enough to have done. It was a big thing in Philly, that he was GM for so long and no playoffs. If you use your mentality Dan Duquette was the mastermind behind the 2004 REd Sox comeback, since he built the core of that team....NOT! Anyway MY POINT was this: at least the Phils were very close and sniffed the playoffs when he was there. ON the other hand, the Jays have sniffed anything but shit since JP has been here!I never mentioned Gillick, stop putting words in my mouth.......<br /><br />Drew are you a prophet? How the hell do you know that if they mount a run in Sept people won't show up? Are you psychic? If they can mount a run AND make a playoff run , frontrunners will show up,pure and simple. Not if the weenies at Rogers make a fucking profit! Fans wants to see wins, not the quarterly report!Bruno Von Rottweilernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-89885786580765223672009-07-16T10:51:39.184-04:002009-07-16T10:51:39.184-04:00I'd rather take a full view and understand wha...I'd rather take a full view and understand what I've got myself into than pound my head off the wall. <br /><br />I don't care if Rogers makes money, but Rogers does. They're going to operate the team on that basis. I need to roll with the punches. <br /><br />Tampa shows you CAN win if you run a disciplined organization with shrewdness, good fortune and intelligence. JP is good at one of those things, occasionally negligent of another and skull fucked by the third. I'll let you decide which is which.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-6494398011381239052009-07-16T10:41:39.152-04:002009-07-16T10:41:39.152-04:00Of course I cry bullshit. As much as Rogers likes...Of course I cry bullshit. As much as Rogers likes to proclaim the Jays are run and viewed as a stand-alone business, I'd love to see how they attribute the value that owning the team brings to their other interests, whether it's content for Sportsnet, advertising for cell phones, etc. I'm pretty sure the Jays financial statements aren't reflecting fair value there. So of course it's bullshit.<br /><br />But it's also the reality we face. And MLB reality is that the majority of teams are run this way. Would I like to see an owner step up who operates the club as as a toy instead of a business? Of course. Is it likely to happen? Not in my opinion.<br /><br />I don't see any logic to your statement that I'm cheering for "Rogers" instead of the "Blue Jays", by the way. You're twisting shit up.<br /><br />So short of crying bullshit, what are we to do? Are you going to quit watching? Shut down your blog? There's no easy answers here. Like I said, it fucking sucks to even be in this position.The Ackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374953233006854310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-19892237277100029192009-07-16T10:29:44.058-04:002009-07-16T10:29:44.058-04:00So...you aren't turning in your Jays card or w...So...you aren't turning in your Jays card or whatever...<br /><br />What the fuck? You realise if you look at it this way, you are cheering for the company that rips you off with your cellphone, right? That it's a business. I don't cheer for this team because they are a good business investment. Who the fuck cheers about a business? Who makes blogs, signs, podcasts, who shows up to the stadium and cheers for a business? That's damn bleak, people. <br /><br />And no, I don't think protesting Rogers will do anything, but at least cry bullshit.Joannahttp://www.humandchuck.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-89022625196627455532009-07-16T10:17:29.483-04:002009-07-16T10:17:29.483-04:00@Bruno -- Ed Wade built the core of the WFC champi...@Bruno -- Ed Wade built the core of the WFC champion Phillies, let's not slurp Gillick so hard as to obscure the truth. <br /><br />As it relates to Rogers, if they invested an extra $50 million into payroll and the Jays made the playoffs, what kind of return would they see? None is the answer. <br /><br />If the Jays are in first place on September 1st, do you think that building sells out every night? No shot. Even if it does, the team still won't make money. No business will dump money down a hole when the return is assuredly negative. That doesn't mean the end of baseball in Toronto, the baseball ops people need to adapt the business model and change the way the operate. With so many teams attempting to operate the same way, it's hard to be good at it. <br /><br />The corporation will continue to run the team as an arm of their business, one they expect to operate near profitability. Huge payroll increases and pennant chases won't change that.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-1070716898173880942009-07-16T10:12:22.110-04:002009-07-16T10:12:22.110-04:00Directed at MK and Joanna, I guess, re: "lyin...Directed at MK and Joanna, I guess, re: "lying back and accepting it".....<br /><br />Just what exactly would you like us to do? Picket the Rogers corporate office demanding a payroll increase to $120M? <br /><br />And since that's obviously not going to happen, how do you propose we convince Doc that the team can win, with the roster as currently constructed (& resources allocated COUGH wells contract COUGH). <br /><br />To suggest that he might re-sign under these conditions, and that nobody knows what the answer would be, is a little (a lot?) naive. Doc is 32. His next contract will likely be the last bigtime payday of his career. 5 years-$100M. He wants to win. He's said as much many times over. Do you realistically think that both of those goals can be accomplished in Toronto, as things stand? Doc and Wells on the books for a combined $40M after 2010? That would be, you know, somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40%-50% of the team's <i>total</i> payroll, if we're talking a $80M-$100M total. And I fear that's being optimistic, given the ominous tones from the front office of late.<br /><br />Look, I think from my posts that it's pretty obvious this is breaking me up. But it's also pretty obvious, given Doc's increasingly apparent desire to move on, and ownership's increasingly apparent desire to reduce payroll, that the course of action is to maximize the return.<br /><br />It fucking sucks. But that's looking like the reality of the situation. I'm not turning in my Blue Jays card, though. Fuck that.<br /><br /><i>"The possibility exists that the foundation of next great Blue Jays team - the one we've waited for since 1993 - is waiting for us, just the other side of this potential Halladay trade."</i><br /><br />That's something, anyway.The Ackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374953233006854310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-22187452399621378382009-07-16T10:06:36.263-04:002009-07-16T10:06:36.263-04:00@jayz9987, Joanna, the sense of frustration is so ...@jayz9987, Joanna, the sense of frustration is so high with this situation. The rogers have the money to resign Doc an build a wineer BUT they are shortsighted. Once again, JP is in charge of another rebuild! Unh? This makes no sense at all. If people think they are not rebuilding I have a brisge to sell you in BRooklyn. You don't trade the best pitcher in baseball BECAUSE you are a contender! Ultimately, I think that the Rogers are destroying the franchise unwittingly. They need to get a new GM ASAP because we've had our own version of Ed Wade(has been a gM with Philly and Houston for something like 10 years and not made the playoffs!, at least in Philly they would be one game away or sniffed them) in Toronto for almost 8 years. To let him trade Doc is a shame. Let a new GM handle this job, who will have a different plan like MacPhail in Baltimore because quite frankly enough is enough with JP's defeatist and lying ways.Bruno Von Rottweilernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-33798006780816318752009-07-16T09:46:25.933-04:002009-07-16T09:46:25.933-04:00So, how long do we have to wait to win? They have...So, how long do we have to wait to win? They have been saying since '93 that they can do it again, but how much longer do we wait? Cause, all due respect, this resigned "I guess that's fate" stuff is bullshit. And fuck it. Cause some teams do this, trade all their pricey talent and get prospects. The Marlins have done it very successfully. But you know, the Marlins wait until they win the World Series to do it. They don't finish 4th and cash in their chips.<br /><br />And by the way, JP has no idea whether Doc will resign. He might have an idea or an intuition. But the only one who actually knows is Doc, and he is the biggest idiot on the planet if he shares that info with JP.Joannahttp://www.humandchuck.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-41832435272215731522009-07-16T09:11:23.578-04:002009-07-16T09:11:23.578-04:00Wow, nice post Tao. I view this very uncomfortable...Wow, nice post Tao. I view this very uncomfortable situation the same way. I don't understand why some fans believe this automatically signals a rebuild. Could the reasons for JP's desire to trade Halladay be because he simply knows Halladay won't resign? If this is true, than JP is doing exactly the right thing.Weezynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-63339709516151904352009-07-16T04:25:27.012-04:002009-07-16T04:25:27.012-04:00Cont'd from above: Should have signed some sor...Cont'd from above: Should have signed some sort of name after my long post. While I do not blog, I do post under the name jayz9987 at the bluejays.com message board, in case anyone bumps into me over there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-76859811290596165982009-07-16T04:13:03.622-04:002009-07-16T04:13:03.622-04:00I swing by your blog from time to time, and this p...I swing by your blog from time to time, and this post is certainly an example of why you are one of the most thoughtful Jays fans I've come across on the net. While I appreciate your thought out opinion, I have to disagree.<br /><br />Roy Halladay is the rock on which you build a franchise. In a game where pitching wins championships, there is simply no way subtraction of the post Steriod Era's best pitcher is addition. There is one big factors working against a trade of Halladay, (a move you are resigned will happen, it appears). The economy:<br /><br />Outside of the big markets, teams are more aware of cost than they've ever been. Why are teams going to fork over possible frachise position players (i.e. Beckham, Kershaw, etc.) who are cheap and under control in this market? Not for a year and a half of Doc, not when the vultures in NY, Boston, Chicago and LA will be all over him in 2011.<br /><br />So now we come to fork in the road the Twins were at with a key difference from Minnesota. Do we settle for a substandard package just to net something for Doc? Or do we use the resource Minnesota didn't have, money. That would take Rogers' to spend the money. But this is not about "overpaying for past glories", this about keeping the best player ever to wear a Toronto Blue Jays uniform. A player who had more than one good season (as with Wells when he was lavished with money) and has shown signs he's not slowing but turning a good seven years into a Hall worthy career.<br /><br />Since the strike, with 15 years of mediocrity behind us, Toronto has become like a lion locked in a zoo. It forgets all it's basic instincts, it's will to fight to hunt. From the Jays fans I have interacted with online, and at RC, everyone just seems resigned to another rebuilding plan. Are we going to give Riccardi a full decade of Blue Jays baseball with no results? If not, than why is he the man with his hand on the trigger? (Does anyone know which 5 year plan of JP's were on now?). <br /><br />Nope, we sit idle, "content" with another 15 years of mediocrity, another 15 years of never willing to jump into the deep end of the pool, because we look at the summits ahead of us (Boston, New York, Tampa Bay) and we say, 'not this year, they're too tall to climb.'<br /><br />We wait like fools for that perfect storm to hit. That perfect season where everyone's healthy, all our prospects grow up, and the peaks ahead of us part and allow us a piece of October baseball.<br /><br />I don't think this city can handle it. I don't think baseball north of the border can handle it. Not 15 years, not in a building that's not going to be replaced anytime soon. If we don't acquire a Carter and an Alomar (and then mind you find our Key, Guzman, Molitor etc.) than I think the loss of Doc puts us one huge step closer to joining our friends in Montreal with no baseball.<br /><br />The Blue Jays biggest supporter is dead (RIP Mr. Rogers). We need to get serious about what it exactly means to lose our rock when the rest of foundation is drifting downstream.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-12156720330814406142009-07-15T23:49:01.635-04:002009-07-15T23:49:01.635-04:00Brilliant! Well written, mate.Brilliant! Well written, mate.T from NYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-74578294021112196312009-07-15T22:14:56.053-04:002009-07-15T22:14:56.053-04:00Halladay and Wells 4 Kershaw and Ethier. case clo...Halladay and Wells 4 Kershaw and Ethier. case closed. only trade to make now or wait for the winter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-52993621138213355162009-07-15T19:57:51.299-04:002009-07-15T19:57:51.299-04:00It frustrates me that the team would resort to dif...It frustrates me that the team would resort to difficult ways of winning, like trading Halladay, before easy ways of winning, like releasing dead weight like Dellucci and Millar.Torgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12254724427156121537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-65992230002261033162009-07-15T19:05:11.216-04:002009-07-15T19:05:11.216-04:00Keep clicking on the ads at DJF, so those kids can...Keep clicking on the ads at DJF, so those kids can buy the teamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-61664752318389821422009-07-15T19:02:09.747-04:002009-07-15T19:02:09.747-04:00I'm also profoundly saddened that fandom is ju...<i>I'm also profoundly saddened that fandom is just lying back and accepting this. You've all given up. That's exactly what Rosenthal and his like want you to do, to be the pawns in their power game. This is exactly what pissed me off about the strike and why I left. Sorry, I buy tickets and merchandise. I'm one of the elements that make it possible for this team to exist. My opinion does matter.</i><br /><br />Well, I'm profoundly amazed at how much of an arrogant and pompous stance you're taking here. As if your presumptuous attitude entitles you to belittle an entire fandom for not properly loving or respecting Roy Halladay. Yes, you are the ultimate Blue Jays fan and the rest of us are mere losers, who because aren't kicking and screaming at the situation are somehow less of a fan of this team and the game of baseball than you. As if somehow, the dollars I spend on Blue Jays merchandise and tickets, are directly proportional to how much my opinion counts. I guess that means I couldn't possibly understand how much Roy Halladay loves this city and this team because I choose to see the other side to this debate and not dismiss it as a simple "Trade Doc, Yes or No" issue.bkbladeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14993067848904779017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-27219052778783315592009-07-15T18:19:14.733-04:002009-07-15T18:19:14.733-04:00Tao, I agree on the need for a big scary bat (and ...Tao, I agree on the need for a big scary bat (and I think we're only one away as Lind is developing nicely), I disagree that we need to trade Doc to get it.<br /><br />He may be one man pitching every fifth day but I don't think we can discount the profound impact he's had on a young pitching staff. AJ Burnett credits Doc with turning him into a real pitcher and the kids get to watch how he prepares, how he handles situations, how he works. This is a value-add that cannot be replaced. This gives him a larger impact than the stats would suggest.<br /><br />I remember the Fernandez trade and frankly, comparing him to Doc is comparing apples to oranges. Tony never had the impact on this club or fandom that Doc has.<br /><br />Sure, give something to get something, but giving away your best asset for a pig in a poke (which is what prospects are) is a bad decision.<br /><br />I'm also profoundly saddened that fandom is just lying back and accepting this. You've all given up. That's exactly what Rosenthal and his like want you to do, to be the pawns in their power game. This is exactly what pissed me off about the strike and why I left. Sorry, I buy tickets and merchandise. I'm one of the elements that make it possible for this team to exist. My opinion does matter.<br /><br />I look at Doc and see how he dedicates himself to this city, this team, and his craft. I see how invested he was (thanks for killing that, Rosenthal) in building a winner here. And this is how he's rewarded. This is how we treat his dedication. I'm sorry, that's shitty and I don't want to be a part of it.MK Piatkowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03121227101455959849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-34504738264219489162009-07-15T17:31:59.239-04:002009-07-15T17:31:59.239-04:00That was very well written. Great read and how I v...That was very well written. Great read and how I view the current situation as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2484762138483195409.post-67971790785810323922009-07-15T17:31:52.148-04:002009-07-15T17:31:52.148-04:00MK, great job mate. NO matter what they get back i...MK, great job mate. NO matter what they get back it will be years before they can even think of catching the Rays(yes, the Rays), the Yanks or the REd Sox. Now with the Os rebuilding(quite frankly their hitting is great so they are ahead of the Jays in one major respect) and their young pitching one year away the Jays will become the runt of the litter. This Doc trade will be a major blow to the franchise, because Doc is the face of the franchise and the most beloved Jay of all time. You don't know what these prospects will become and they can all suck. The scariest thing is that this task should have been in the hands of a new GM, like what Baltimore did with MacPhail. Instead , we have JP overseeing this trade or initial rebuilding? Sad...I really think that the team can't survive another rebuilding quite frankly. If you think the crowds are meager now, just wait now that Doc is gone. !15,000 a game now? Try 5000-8000 from now on.....Bad penny pinching job BY an owner that owns every outlet they play on(radio, cable station, cable provider) AND the stadium! Unbelievable that this will happen BUT this is when the owners only care about a substantial profit. Message to the Rogers, you are being pennywise and pound foolish.......Bruno Von Rottweilernoreply@blogger.com